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When it says here that “he went up,” what this means is that he also came down into the lower place, that is, the earth. 10 The one who came down is the one who also “went up”—yes, above all the heavens!—so that he might fill all things.

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11 So these were the gifts that he gave. Some were to be apostles, others prophets, others evangelists, and others pastors and teachers.

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